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Re: Principa Discordia
Tue, October 21, 2003 - 7:04 PMAnother link for the fnords: www.poee.org/ -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Thu, January 22, 2004 - 6:08 PM
I just read Loopi's peice on The Illuminati and responsibility for self. (From the poee website.) This has always been a facinating topic for me, because despite my own dreaded socialization, I love the idea of each person acting from within themselves rather than constantly with or against another's "rule book." However, I've never been convinced that a large society could actually sustain itself with that system. Can "individuality" be the complete basis for community or are they mutually exclusive? Any sage words on the subject? -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Fri, January 23, 2004 - 2:04 AMthis is probably the complete spectrum opposite on some issues but objectivists preach individualism just as strong. they seem to think that if everyone handles themselves in a rational manner, society as a whole will just "work". personally, i think they're a bunch of crazy cultists with too much faith in people but to each his own... *shrug* -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Fri, January 23, 2004 - 4:35 PM
No, I hear you. However, as a teacher, I'm not so sure the current system of indoctrination is really the best way to create a workable society. I think of schools like the MET, where students develop their own projects, their own study habits, etc., and those schools generally create graduates who are most prepared to deal with society on personal and professional levels. Sometimes they'll have a freshman who sits around for a whole year before they get in gear, but pretty much everyone completes the requirements by the time it is time to graduate. What if children were part of a system of supported inquiry from a small age, rather than a system of dictated "learning"? Would we really have chaos? -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Sat, January 24, 2004 - 12:11 PMwell i know this is good for some people, but i know that for myself this is a recipe for failure. If i dont have impending doom hanging over my head i become completely unmotivated. i need dead-lines or i get lazy and i need limits or i get completely confused with too many options. then again, i've been a victim of conventional education and society... who knows what i'd have turned out like if i attended an "advanced" school since early childhood. -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Sat, January 24, 2004 - 1:41 PM
Perhaps we could do scientific regression experiments on you to see if my hypothosis is correct. As a teacher, I can only offer you about $10 and good grades as a stipend, but you would be doing a great service for future societies. What do you think? Anyone else willing to give it a go? -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Sat, January 24, 2004 - 3:27 PMI am not too sure but there I beleive the Montessori Elementary school model is based on the very model you are talking about. Plus there are other private schools that exist on a similar vein and organizations for people who give homeschooling to their kids with similar ideas.
I am not too sure though if we should abandon the model of the sacred Chao, a whirling disk of eristic and aneristic. Some people have a will to freedom, some have a will to be sheep in a hierarchy or at a top in a hierarchy. For better or worse, both worlds co-exist. Creating an education system to create individualistic free thinking kids to a society based on such is probably not going to work for the kids who want structure and who as adults will want the same.
Perhaps the mark of ultimate freedom is to give people the freedom to give up their freedom if they want to. Some people always will, that's what only the most sophisticated anarchists understand, that anarchy is now and has always been. That people choose bondage because it's what they want, because they don't want responsibility or the inconvenience of having to think for themselves, or risk.
Children aren't exempt from having a will of their own. They aren't merely impressionable creatures that have a malleable will who can be influenced to choose freedom over bondage.
A healthy society or school offers both options. Children who have a desire to freedom and self motivation should and probably do have the option to pursue their independent study projects. Children that have a will towards desiring structure, even acting out antisocially if they don't have structure as a result of anxiety from feeling alienated without boundries firmly drawn around them at all times, well... the system should accomodate their needs too.
Both halfs of the chao, in ballence, dynamicly whirling.
Note that discrepencies in school districts and the politics of money do limit lower income towns' schooling to offer less options to students. They may perhaps have a small "gifted and talented" program that is underfunded where only the smallest grouping of kids with a self motivated will towards freedom will be able to get the academic support and nurturing that they need.
The affluent district I graduated High School from had every option available, want to be a number, do your work, graduate just doing what you are told.... done. You want to devise your own study program... they made it easy to do it if you wanted to, could practically make your own cirriculum and work it out with your teacher. But they had a lot of financial resources and their class sizes were pretty damn small, the teachers were not very stressed out and had a lot of assistance at their disposal. -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Mon, January 26, 2004 - 1:22 AMother than this fine text, what would you reccomend to the new initiate. ive tried playing illuminati with her, but shes not to quick to catch on. schrodinger's cat was too random for her. what to try next? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Principa Discordia
Mon, January 26, 2004 - 1:43 AMJust determine what she wants out of this life, her true will, whatever that is.
Adopt your teachings accordingly, to help her to attain her will, even if it is something you wouldn't choose for yourself.
If her will is self-destructive, let her go, there are already plenty teachers for self destruction.
At the very least, help her to see what her true will is (If you can wrk with it) and try to keep her focused on it. She should catch on to anything related to the pursuit of her true will's attainment more rapidly than esoteric concepts unrelated to it.
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Re: Principa Discordia
Mon, April 12, 2004 - 6:44 AMConfusion is bliss. Someday let yourself be confused-- for at least a few months-- and you will find out who you really are & what you really want. It's the only way.
Failing at what society wants you to do is succeeding at being a real person.
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Re: Principa Discordia
Mon, January 26, 2004 - 8:03 PMto quote Saint Samuel Clemens...
"To create humans was a quaint idea; to create sheep was a tautology."
If most humans were put into a system that supported inquiry from a young age, most of them would be inquiring what the ought to be inquiring about.... -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Mon, January 26, 2004 - 8:10 PM"If most humans were put into a system that supported inquiry from a young age, most of them would be inquiring what the ought to be inquiring about.... "
BuhHahahahahahahhahhahh !!! 8D))
The irony is, that is all most adolescnents in free societies with all of the benefit of choices of the upper middle class to wealthy do.
Freedom= Idenity Crisis for would be sheep.
Hmmm, Remember an old Punk Rock group called "Age of Chance" wrote lyrics to a song called "The Morning After the Sixties"
-Pass the asprin
Give me a pill
All this freedom
Is making me ill-
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Re: Principa Discordia
Mon, April 12, 2004 - 6:50 AMcheck out the Sudbury Valley School model.. google will tell you about it
i went to one for a few years & i can tell you about the kids who had their whole childhood there: they are on a different plane of existence
they don't waste their time "learning"-- that very idea just recapitulates the hungupness of someone who's been through the normal brainwashing-- it's so beyond the point to talk about the fact that yes they actually know things, they can read & so forth
they didn't spend their childhood learning to read (that's easy for anyone with an open mind), they spent it becoming human, blossoming, freaking out
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Re: Principa Discordia
Mon, April 12, 2004 - 6:41 AMIndividuality can absolutely be the basis for community. I would say that it is the only thing that can-- strict conformity never really works & can create at best the appearance of union. Superficial chaos creates deep order, superficial order creates deep chaos, & so forth all the way down (it's all turtles, & hares).
One key is that being an individual encountering another individual is very different from being a member of one or another brainwash cycle encountering another member of a different one. Two people who get together & discuss "pro-life vs pro-choice" are not expressing their individual views, they are acting out a scripted drama for the benefit of The Powers That Bore. Real individuals would have more interesting positions, or at the very least they would find something else to talk about after a few minutes.
Real individuals create new ideas streamingly constantly like a slow motion explosive. They don't disharmoniate when they come in contact with other individuals, they ignite. Actual groups of individuals acting as communities are as rare as hens' teeth these days, & that is why most people are not aware that they are not only possible, but tremendously alive & powerful. -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Thu, May 6, 2004 - 1:02 PMas for me...i like my Principia plain. no frills. when i bought the Loompanics edition, i just rephotocopied all the elements originally intended for the Ripoff Press edition, left out ALL the padding (the forward, the afterword) created for the Loompanics edition, went to a photocopy shop & put together a copy that restores Principia to its original beautifull simplicity.
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Re: Principa Discordia
Thu, May 6, 2004 - 1:11 PMWhere are such communities?
I have been to a few communes, found their supericial platitudes of being open and free to actually have more restrictive rules and social conformity than what is found outside their communes.
If you know of a place that actually does what it says, would like to know. I'd definately visit at some point just to see the hens tooth. -
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Re: Principa Discordia
Thu, September 30, 2004 - 10:18 AMNimbin, Australia, is one commune that sounds like it works well.
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